Thursday, April 02, 2009

A modest proposal for a Hawaii traffic court sovereignty defense

In the comments to an earlier post about sovereignty arguments in traffic court, I was invited (or challenged?) to "figure out an approach for Kanaka that could win." It's a tough assignment, but I've been giving it some thought.

Back in 1994 the Hawaii Court of Appeals heard the case of Anthony Lorenzo who had been convicted of driving without a license, negligent injury, and failing to render assistance after being involved in an automobile accident. State v. Lorenzo, 883 P.2d 641, 77 Haw. 219 (Haw.Ct.App. 1994).

Lorenzo had made a motion to dismiss in the lower court arguing that the Kingdom of Hawaii was recognized as an independent sovereign nation by the United States in numerous bilateral treaties; the Kingdom was illegally overthrown in 1893 with the assistance of the United States; the Kingdom still exists as a sovereign nation; he is a citizen of the Kingdom; therefore, the courts of the State of Hawaii have no jurisdiction over him.

The lower court denied the motion, saying, "Although the Court respects Defendant's freedom of thought and expression to believe that jurisdiction over the Defendant for the criminal offenses in the instant case should be with a sovereign, Native Hawaiian entity, like the Kingdom of Hawaii, such an entity does not preempt nor preclude jurisdiction of this court..."

In other words, according to the appellate court, "The essence of the lower court's decision is that even if, as Lorenzo contends, the 1893 overthrow of the Kingdom was illegal, that would not affect the court's jurisdiction in this case."

Then the appellate court announced that that's not really true, calling the lower court's rationale "open to question in light of international law."

What does that mean? The court explained by way of a footnote: "A state has an obligation not to recognize or treat as a state an entity that has attained the qualifications for statehood as a result of a threat or use of armed force in violation of the United Nations Charter. Restatement (Third) of the Foreign Relations Law of the United States § 202(2). The illegal overthrow leaves open the question whether the present governance system should be recognized, even though the illegal overthrow predated the United Nations Charter."

Nevertheless, the appellate court explained, the lower court's decision was correct because Lorenzo "presented no factual (or legal) basis for concluding that the Kingdom exists as a state in accordance with recognized attributes of a state's sovereign nature."

This of course raises the tantalizing prospect of what then might the court do if a defendant did establish as a matter of fact (or law) that the Kingdom exists as a state in accordance with recognized attributes of a state's sovereign nature?

There's no copyrighting of legal arguments, but I want to acknowledge that this is what I'm almost sure attorney Dan Hempey and his defendant clients in the Kaho'olawe trespass case are up to. They spent a lot of time with an expert witness on the stand covering "the essential attributes of sovereign statehood" listed in another footnote to the Lorenzo decision.

So what would a court do if a defendant was able to establish the existence of the Kingdom? Would the court announce its own lack of jurisdiction? I dunno. Doubt it. But maybe that's where the Hawaii Supreme Court's ceded land decision could be stretched to accommodate the facts of a sovereignty challenge.

The ceded lands court enjoined sale of the lands until settlement of "unrelinquished claims" growing out of the events of the overthrow of the Kingdom. Well, native sovereignty is also an "unrelinquished claim" arising from the same events. In fact, it could turn out that in the end the state loses its sovereignty in the ceded lands, or parts thereof, depending on what settlement ensues. Why not also enjoin the state's exercise of sovereignty over natives until all those issues are sorted out?

Of course this strategy depends on how the Hawaii Supreme Court handles the remand from the SCOTUS of the ceded lands case. If the court says, "never mind," and backs off its injunction, then this bet is off. But if it sustains the injunction on state law foundations, then why not press any and all claims contingent on the outcome of a future settlement?

That's my idea. I admit, it has its weaknesses. (For one thing, it would leave an entire class of people, or, if applied to ceded lands, a number of geographic locations, devoid of any criminal jurisdiction at all.) I invite all to improve on it or rip it apart or maybe just distinguish it in principle from the ceded lands decision.

44 comments:

Kai said...

Why do you see the burden of proof on the defendant! I though the court has to establish Jurisdiction and Venue?

They just ignore us on these points and refuse to hear evidence!

Kai

charley foster said...

The challenge was to figure out a viable strategy. It's well established that simply telling the court it doesn't have jurisdiction doesn't work. As the court said in State v. Fergerstrom, 101 P.3d 652, 106 Hawai'i 43 (Haw.Ct.App. 2004).

"Whatever may be said regarding the lawfulness of the Provisional Government in 1893, the Republic of Hawaii in 1894, and the Territory of Hawaii in 1898, the State of Hawaii was, on February 9, 2002, and is now, a lawful government. As noted by this court in State v. French, 77 Hawaii 222, 231-32, 883 P.2d 644, 653-54 (App. 1994), the State of Hawaii has lawful jurisdiction over all persons operating motor vehicles on public roads or highways within the State of Hawaii. Persons claiming to be citizens of the Kingdom of Hawaii and not of the State of Hawaii are not exempt from the laws of the State of Hawaii applicable to all persons (citizens and non-citizens) operating motor vehicles on public roads and highways within the State of Hawaii."

Kai said...

I know Hank let that case get away from him. We told him to appeal. Nakamura [I believe] had violated his rights on so many points in could have really done something. first of all on Native dress it is settled law from a case out of Brooklyn I believe involving a Nigerian.
As for driving in the State, the judge is correct. Our point is he was not in the State of Hawaii. He was in the Kingdom! You know this absurdity does not come from us as we are portrayed. It comes from the US accepting and creating the "Republic" which all admit was a phony.

So can you drive in the Kingdom, what are its borders? We can prove it, but who is the arbiter? Can the SOH see the Kingdom? so far it is blind to it. If it does see the Kingdom will it admit that it does?

despite the "Whereas" the Apology law says it realizes some Hawaiians have not given up their sovereignty and claims to their lands. What does that mean. Is it just pillow talk? If it is true then the Judge in Hanks case ruled incorrectly and violated his rights under Geneva 4 and would face possible international criminal court charges.

but then again the law is uncertain when it comes to "Indigenous" whatevers.

Kai

Kai said...

we are discussing you point though. To let you know I take it seriously and I have sent it out for other mana'o.

Of course we have been hashing this out for years.

Kai

no need publish

Manawai said...

Now, I'm no attorney but what I find fault with in Kai's logic is the omission of the fact that overthrow was a revolution by Hawaiian citizens; naturalized, but citizens none the less. Surely the revolution was assisted by the presence of U.S. troops and other non-citizens, but it was in fact an internal revolution which brought about the creation of the Republic of Hawaii. The U.S. didn't create the Republic. It was then the Republic that transferred itself to become a U. S. possession. Therefore, doesn't one have to attack the legitimacy of the revolution itself as the event which has ultimately led us to where we are now? So, then I’d ask, is there such a thing as a legitimate revolution? If that isn't so, then very few modern nations today can be considered legitimate which would then negate the legitimacy of all international law or treaties made by these illegitimate nations. Consequently, there goes the United Nations and most, if not all, other international legal constructs. So, if all revolutions no matter how ancient are cited as being a flaw to legitimacy, then we have to accept that our modern world is lawless and that no court anywhere has jurisdiction over anyone. It’s then an international free-for-all in which anything goes and those with the power make the rules. So then, isn’t attempting to use a legal basis for bringing about the resurrection of a sovereign Hawaiian nation is impossible? Can’t one also use this logic in attacking the legitimacy of any nation the government of which has arisen as a result of war?

Anonymous said...

Good point. The American revolution was "illegal" too.

Anonymous said...

the brits could sue the frogs for interference (and the frogs, unlike the US navy, did fire shots)

charley foster said...

Well, certainly under the law that is binding on the federal and state courts, Hawaii is a lawful sovereign government with jurisdiction over people within the state.

That's why I resorted to a back door moratorium approach instead of a head-on challenge to state sovereignty. The validity of the state's sovereignty is not a question that the courts can even entertain. It is a political question. Fair or not, it will ultimately have to be determined in a legislature.

And really, my strategy is not all that great. It's not hard to distinguish the ceded lands decision from a challenge to state jurisdiction. The ceded lands case relies on the idea that the lands are held in trust. According to the court, it's the state's fiduciary duty to preserve the trust assets pending a settlement. There's no such trust relationship at work in the issue of the state's judicial authority.

But, you never know. Depending on what the court had for breakfast that morning, one could get lucky.

Kai said...

"omission of the fact that overthrow was a revolution by Hawaiian citizens; naturalized, but citizens none the less. Surely the revolution was assisted by the presence of U.S. troops and other non-citizens, but it was in fact an internal revolution which brought about the creation of the Republic of Hawaii."

Iam sorry but you have to do your homework! Those are the facts the US enjoys when people believe that,But even they have given up the internal revolution myth. so why are you spreading it and you wonder why Kanakas get mad!
There was no war, no insurrection, just greedy sugar planters and a greedy American nation. ok Thurston was born in Hawaii and he had his own misgivings. Dole was naturalized and should have been hung as a traitor. The rule of law does not allow the actions you speak off and in any way make them legitimate.

Even held within Alitos opinion he recognizes that the Republic is suspect. He uses the term "replaces" for the Republic. You guys are missing the message in the opinion here. Look what not there and review what is: "We have no jurisdiction over Hawaiian Law" why not State of Hawaii law?

we never argue the validity of the State! waste of time. Where does the States authority begin and end?

You guys are not looking at law but at might and do your homework manawai! don't read Van Dyke or twig-smith or conklin.

even just read HR 103-150 not as a law but as an admission.

Kai

Kai said...

http://hawaiiankingdom.org/pdf/Continuity_Hawn_Kingdom.pdf

read this manawai

Manawai said...

Sorry, Kai. I just "read" my ancestors who were there at the time. A couple of them actually offered to arm a group of Hawaiians if the Hawaiians wished to conduct a counter revolution. They chose not to and the rest is history...albiet subject to some peoples' revision.

Anonymous said...

Surprised to see Van Dyke lumped with Twigg-Smith and Conklin. What's that about?

Anonymous said...

manawai:

-- offer a rough overview (and intellectually i know you can do this - so please do) of who all was or was not a full blown citizen at the time, among those "leading and/or in" the '93 "revolution"

speak to that is you would

thanks much!

Kai said...

Mahalo Charley Foster,

It was nice while it lasted! I should have known by the revisionist commentary that it might be Aaron Stene behind it on this blog. I don't hide who I am and by others having this ability discussions can suffer.

There was some good thinking here and I can appreciate your effort to try to understand these legal issues [along with myself] to find possible outcomes.

It is unfortunate that this is a game to some who wish to provoke stupidity and not knowledge.

Aaron Stene hides his ignorance behind attacking me and others and not posting our replies on his blog. He then goes on to accuse us of failing to answer.

I am to old for this and sometimes not paying attention to hate is a better solution. So with my Aloha I ask you not to go to his blog and give him the only thing he cares about, ratings

Mahalo and Aloha oe

Kai Landow

Anonymous said...

Aaron- In a way I do oppose the Hawaiian sovereignty movement. I don’t think its right to forcibly try to to reverse the clock
back to before 1893. As you are aware a lot has changed here, for better and worse, over the last century. In other words its
too late to change things back.On that note, I would fight any attempt to return the monarchy.

Anonymous said...

ya got great ancestors manawai. good plan. offer the hawaiians guns to resist the o'throw by the rich white guys so they got reason to have the marines mow them down. then blame them for losing their nation cuz they never fight back.

classic colonialist mentality. classic revisionist history.

Kai Landow said...

Since Aaron Stene has linked this blog to his site I post an answer here to his provocations. Though I would be interested in your thoughts.



Why is it Damon, RJ and Aaron you never address why this blog exits?
DaMON SAYS:

It's very counter productive.

RJ SAYS:

Are you sure that this is the best way to counter Aaron?

Anonymous: [probably Aaron Stene] It doesn't get much more asinine than this!

Kai: I have got to agree and that is some of your best commentary yet!



First of all you have supported Aaron Stene's unfounded attacks on me. I find it interesting it does not bother you the tactics he uses. I put this blog together a while back when Aaron was making claims about me and then not posting my answers. Including claiming I wasn't answering him. So I posted them on Ma'oli world and I let him post without edit!

What did you do then? Did you say Come on Aaron. if you go after someone you should give them a chance to answer? No,You attacked me for posting the forum on Ma'oli world! Damon attacked me for posting "Aaron Stene declares war on the sovereignty movement" OK that was a little harsh but I backed up what I said with this quote.

Aaron- In a way I do oppose the Hawaiian sovereignty movement. I don’t think its right to forcibly try to to reverse the clock
back to before 1893. As you are aware a lot has changed here, for better and worse, over the last century. In other words its
too late to change things back.On that note, I would fight any attempt to return the monarchy.

That's pretty harsh too and he has to take his cracks if he's going to make public statements like that. perhaps you guys can not see the full measure of colonialism and hate that lies in that statement. It is not even the fighting words, but the "Reverse the Clock" because that is filled with the propagandist thinking of American oppression. I don't care where Aaron Stene was born [He claims to be a Kama'aina] he's an American and he is trashing my country! Nobody asked his opinion!

Does he have a right to his opinion? Sure he can do whatever he likes. But why does anyone in the world know about this blog? Because in an effort to provoke me Aaron Stene posted "Kai Landow strikes again" and put a link to this blog which has sat fallow until and unless he starts this stupidity again!

Do you have any criticism for Aaron coming into a Charlie Foster's blog in which an intelligent discourse was going on. We didn't agree but there was a polite thoughtful back and forth. I do not know which of you is "ManaWai" but you know who you are. His post where there to disrupt and if I wanted to continue to argue Conklin's revisionist history then I would have continued to blog with him.

At the core of this is an interesting problem. Bullying people on blogs is an effective way in ending debate. I was happy to answer you guys and I answered RJ. I think RJ and I can reach an understanding, though I continue to be disappointed that he doesn't repudiate the tactics of Aaron Stene.

I do publicly apologise for anyone in my government who opposes the right of Gays and Lesbians and I personally fully support their equal rights and right to marriage.

So what is your motivation? I can only think Ululani is right and you seek ratings, because it is a hit and run style [not RJ]. So what is fair for me to do in response?

I still wait for you to address these issues. why do you avoid answering this point? I would point out that I wasn't attacking Aaron in this blog [just posting it] and what is the injury here. Do you think he might suffer if people have a chance to answer his pontificating?


OK you can criticise me, can you create solutions? I doubt it. So what Damon is productive? But I will in your absence of your positive suggestions.



I will cease this Blog when you simply agree to at least post all replies by the people you go after, simple Yes?

Fair? Yes!

Kai Landow
Posted by Kai Landow at 4:55 AM 0 comments

hwnwahine said...

hello,

dare to understand the truth?

The U.S. premeditated the dethronement of our Queen which is documented in the article affecting the PEARL HARBOR TREATY - see the NEW YORK TIMES January 9, 1893 ---google 'Pearl Harbor Treaty'....

Piracy(ies) on the high seas are realistic issues in what occurred at the time also....

Evidence of conspiracies are also documented...including Thomas Akaka's, Lorrin Thurston, Dr. Mott Smith etals in Washington D.C. planning, conspiring in 1892 to dethrone the Queen.....

B.F. Tracy, American agent and Thurston met and also planned the dethronement of our Queen in Makua, Oahu in 1892 and more.....

Our Queen never gave the treasonous persons, 3000 versus her subjects numbering 40,000 jurisdiction.....

importantly, the conspiring, deviants, are considered treasonous/ terrorists of our Queen, and subjects of a neutral, friendly nation.......and it was they who created the conditions of stress, duress, coercion, and usurpation on our Queen, our people/ kanaka maoli, kelii maoli which continued over time into present times which means everything that SB Dole etals. created are and have been "null and void" because the conditions exist as we speak.

realistically, 1,650+ years of our ancient people versus the descendants of documented SCUM says a lot:

THIS IS WHY THE U.S. IS TRULY MESSED UP (to put it nicely)...........

A REPOST

BACKGROUND of Americans through an article that was printed in THE READER'S DIGEST No. 65, September 1927 pages 309-310; and,

COLONIAL HISTORY DEBUNKED

Condensed from Harper's Magazine

Harold Underwood Faulkner

Probably no period in our history has received more exhaustive investigation by historians than that between the discovery of America and the War of the Revolution. Yet it is astonishing how large is the amount of almost unadulterated bunk which has been regularly disseminated in books and school rooms.

Virginia presents one of the most persistent bits of fiction, --that a goodly proportion of its wealthy families emanated from the nobility of England and came to Virginia after the decapitation of Charles I. Actually, the Virginian aristocracy developed almost entirely within the colony, and the larger part of it was derived from the English merchant class. The leading families of Virginia had exactly the same origin as those of New England. The Virginia middle class sprang from the families of immigrants of humble means and origin.

The colonial Virginian stock was, in fact, primarily recruited from the lower and poorer classes in England--those groups whose economic position at home was hopeless. A number of these were able to pay their own passage and to set up immediately as small proprietors. The great majority, however, of the immigrants to Virginia ccame as indentured servants. Between 1635 and 1680 there arrived in that colony annually from 1000 to 1600 servants, Governor Berkeley estimating the annual immigration at 1500. Wertenbaker believes that 80,000 would be a conservative estimate of the number of indentured servants who landed, asserting that they were the most important factor in the settlement of the colony. Becker describes these servants as an 'inferior and servile' class. In brief, then, the elite colonial population of Virginia, instead of being composed of the best elements of English society, was composed to a considerable extent of the worst.

Most people have another misapprehension when they think of the colonial South as a community in which the social and economic unit was the large plantation worked by slaves and supervised by cultured gentlemen who lived a life of opulence and refinement. As a matter of fact, there were few slaves in Virginia until the 18th century. Again, although the tone of Virginian society was given by wealthy planters of the type of the Beverleys, Carters, and Byrds, most of the southern whites were small landholders, as Wertenbaker has conclusively proved. Prof. W. E. Dodd, a leading Southern historian, maintains taht 'nine-tenths of the South's landowners at any period were small proprietors.' Moreover, the Southern planter of large estate, where he existed, like his English prototype, was a hard-drinking, horse-racing farmer whose recreation was more often found following the hounds than in prerusing the classics, and whose sexual appetite was as likely to be appeased in the quar-
ters of his slaves as in the bonds of holy matrimony.


From the pride with which the Colonial Dames point to their ancestors one would suppose that they were supermen, the ne plus extra of European society. On the contrary, a majority belonged to the class at home who were economically beaten or who were persecuted for religious or political beliefs. The latter element, of course, were likely to be above the average; the former group, however, driven out by economic pressure, left reluctantly and contributed a racial stock highly undesirable, except as providing a supply of cheap labor. Relatively few immigrants who were economically independent came to America of their own initiative during the colonial period.

What has been said of the population of Virginia applied to most of the norther colonies, but to a lesser degree. In the North the self-sufficient farm obtained rather than the large plantation and, as a consequence, the pressure for cheap labor was not so great. Nevertheless, indentured servants of various types and the beaten and outcast of many nations formed a goodly proportion of the immigrants. We find Governor Bradford of Plymouth describing a most degrading sex crime and trying to explain 'how came it to pass that so many wicked persons and profane people should so quickly come over into this land.'
His explanations have a modern ring to them. The chief reasons which he advanced wer (1) that the great need of servants in a new land forced those in need of help 'who could not have such as they would...to take such as they could'; (2) that ship owners 'to make up their freight and advanc4e their profits, cared little who the persons were, so they had money to pay them'; and (3) that many were sent of their friends that they might be eased of such burthens and they kept from shame at home that would necessarily follow their dissolute courses.' The colonial court records of a typical New England community, such as Plymouth, with its depressing series of indictments for sexual crimes, indicate clearly that there was a considerable sub-normal racial stock present. From whence, then, comes this exaggerated pride in colonial forbears and this idea that the colonist was a superman and the very flower of Nordic civilization?

The popular conception of colonial New England is as erroneous as that of Virgina, only in this case the trouble arises from an excess of hostile criticism, due to the tendency to blame most of the unpopular features of our civilization upon New Englalnd Puritanism. The picture which the average individual has of early New England is that of a community where a lot of long-faced hypocrites divided their attention between sterile fields and a horrible theology, and dragged out a gloomy existence under the iron rule of ministerial oligarchy, the monotony varied only by the pleasure of occasionally hanging a Quaker or burning a witch. Because a lying person, one Sam Peters, invented a number of so-called 'Blue Laws,' many today still believe that to kiss one's child on the Sabbath, to make mince pies, and to play certain musical instruments were criminal offences under the laws of New Haven.

The laws in New England were not only less cruel than in England but they were enforced with less severity. That there was considerable interference in the private life of the Colonial New Englander is not to be denied; but who are we who live in an age of innumerable violations of personal liberty, and who have barely raised a protest, to sneer at our forbears?

True enough, New England for almost two centuries was virtually, though not technically, a theocracy; but it should be remembered that the clergy of colonial New England were the best educated, often the only educated, individuals in the community, and exercised power through the force of intellectual superiority as well as through the prestige which came from their position as head of the most important social institute in the community. The possibility of a society ruled by its most intelligent citizens is so far removed from the degenerate democracies of our own then that it is quite beyond our powers of comprehension. Hence, I suspect, the somewhat condescending attitude which we assume toward our ancestors. Those of us who have dallied in the tap rooms or before the fireplaces of the cozy colorful(?) taverns, or have stood in amazement at the sure and often rich art of New England as displayed in the Royal Mansion at Medford or the Lee Mansion at Marblehead, cannot help but feel that at least 18th-century New England could not have been such a hopeless place in which to abide. If some of the evils under which we suffer are, as is contended, the result of Puritanism, it was the Puritanism of those who moved out. Certainly New England has been as much as any part of our country a home of that religious, political, and personal liberty which is fast vanishing.


Note and Comments:

America was and is made up of CRIMINAL DEVIANTS, BELIALS, SCOUNDRELS, AND SCUM documented.

Those who call themselves the better lot are the educated with a religious background. Also remember that the religious folk opposed England's rules and resorted to moving and assuming American Indian lands...

Therefore, America has different levels of SCOUNDRELS.......and then they came as mercenaries/missionaries to Hawaii after Kamehameha had set up our government, income through shipping duties, etc.

added note: There are good people too....a mixed bunch for sure....

aloha.
************************
p.s. Queen Liliuokalani did say an entity illegally dethroned her and she did not regard or respect them to be a de jure nor de facto government.

I maintain that they are PIRATES/ pirates/pie-RATS! looking, scrounging, deviously assuming what is NOT theirs...includes penis nosed Jew Linda Lingle, one armed bandit "Joe Jap" Inouye, etals.

Amelia Gora, one of the Royal persons, descendant of Kamehameha, etals., editor of the IOLANI - The Royal Hawk - news on the web see www.theiolani.blogspot.com http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/GORA8037 etc.

hwnwahine said...

add'l comments:
************************
p.s. Queen Liliuokalani did say an entity illegally dethroned her and she did not regard or respect them to be a de jure nor de facto government.

I maintain that they are PIRATES/ pirates/pie-RATS! looking, scrounging, deviously assuming what is NOT theirs...includes penis nosed Jew Linda Lingle, one armed bandit "Joe Jap" Inouye, etals.

Amelia Gora, one of the Royal persons, descendant of Kamehameha, etals., editor of the IOLANI - The Royal Hawk - news on the web see www.theiolani.blogspot.com http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/GORA8037 etc.

4/06/2009 1:16 AM


*************************************
fyi - the names used for Lingle and Inouye were posted in past issues of the IOLANI - The Royal Hawk.

It is problematic for an entity claiming to be OUR government when they continue to do wrongs, perpetuating frauds over time, continuing genocide, "historical identity theft" etc.

many people have verified that Lingle's nose looks unsightly and I've also learned that she has many lady friends (perhaps secretly supporting gay movements?) and one armed bandit "Joe Jap" (I have documents showing that's what the entity now State of Hawaii dubbed my great grandfather "Joe Jap" and I have the proof) was in 2006 one of the owners of CPB Central Pacific Bank - 70% owner group, which is "the 23rd best performing bank in the nation" ----

There's more about the banks, the corrupt bankers who were part of the conspiracies/piracies/terrorist activities against our Queen and people........

First Hawaiian Bank - formerly known as Bank of Bishop and Co. ( Pirate of the Pacific: Charles Reed Bishop and William A. Aldrich founders), purchased by treasonous person Samuel Damon in 1895; the name changed to Bishop First National Bank of Honolulu, First National Bank of Hawaii then in 1969 to First Hawaiian Bank. First Hawaiian Bank "merged with BancWest Corporation, which was bought by BNP Paribus of France in 2001." (International bankers)

Bank of Hawaii - formed by treasonous persons shortly after the dethronement of Hawaii's Queen, specifically: Charles M. Cooke; his sons: Peter Cushman Jones, Joseph Ballard Atherton; grandson Edwin Jones; Clarence Hyde Cooke. Remember that current President Obama's grandmother was a former executive of this bank.

Did you know that the Torrens System - Land Court System was set in place because of the bankers?

Do you see further moves by the bankers to further assume what is NOT theirs? Do you see the pirate maneuvers, the racketeering, perpetuation of historical frauds, the historical identity thieves operations working still?

do you folks see the picture......Lingle moving to assume lands of our Royal families, along with broke ass banker Inouye.............do you see the light?..........CORPORATE WELFARE at OUR expense? They are NOT our Hawaiian government. Because Lingle, Inouye, and OHA/Office of Hawaiian Affairs are NOT related to us, they are not Kamehameha's descendants, etals.

The Criminal maneuver to assume private properties of Royal Families is not O.K. The Ahupuaa that they are moving to claim belongs to konohiki Nuuanu, konohiki Kamehameha III, and konohiki KAAHA.....I, Amelia Gora, am one of the descendants of Nuuanu, heir of Kamehameha III, and Kaaha. My great grandmother's first cousin was Harold Abel Cathcart who documented opposition against Statehood. Because opposition was documented, "Sovereignty shall be".

aloha.

Reference: IOLANI - The Royal Hawk news on the web, researches, the COMPANIES WE KEEP by Bob Sigall and his students at Hawaii Pacific University (2006), Publisher Small Business Hawaii

Anonymous said...

Sad to see an alleged Hawaiian engaging in race-baiting in the name of "aloha." It would be very hard for opponents of sovereignty to discredit sovereignty more effectively than ignorant racist rants like the one above.

hwnwahine said...

Good........caught your eye.....

mission accomplished!

now, go back to the post and read the IMPORTANT PARTS which is the conditions which continue since the time of the criminal dethronement of our Queen in 1893...the part that negates, nulls and void ALL that the entity State of Hawaii does ..."stress, dure4ss, coercion, and usurpation"

thanks for posting.

aloha - the real stuff, not the version of the USERS, the CRIMINALS, the TREASONOUS persons prostituting our people for the SALE OF ALOHA or should I say the RAPE of ALOHA from neutral, non-violent people.

Reference: PARADISE OF THE PACIFIC MAGAZINE "Hawaii for the White Man" - TOURISM etc at the expense of our pono/good people, Main Library, Honolulu, Oahu, Hawaii

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but when someone uses race-baiting I disregard everything else they have to say.

Anonymous said...

"America was and is made up of CRIMINAL DEVIANTS, BELIALS, SCOUNDRELS, AND SCUM documented."

-- so that is the thesis statement of the post? it was an interesting cut-and-paste job...but if that was the thesis, since there was no mention of georgia it suggests to the reader you dont know your material very well


"includes penis nosed Jew Linda Lingle"

-- very strange thing to say, by the way

Anonymous said...

"includes penis nosed Jew Linda Lingle"

-- very strange thing to say, by the way

I hate to think what hwnwahine would be writing if Lingle was black. Comments on this blog are usually reasonably intelligent. This is a low point.

nunya said...

Charlie Foster said: "
"Whatever may be said regarding the lawfulness of the Provisional Government in 1893, the Republic of Hawaii in 1894, and the Territory of Hawaii in 1898, the State of Hawaii was, on February 9, 2002, and is now, a lawful government."

Correction to that please: the state is considered by many a ʻlegalʻ entity, NOT ʻlawfulʻ. There is a difference.
It is a de facto state.

Anonymous said...

"Surprised to see Van Dyke lumped with Twigg-Smith and Conklin. What's that about?"

Van Dyke is a confused individual at times.

nunya said...

"Sorry, but when someone uses race-baiting I disregard everything else they have to say."

Interesting, I never see this strong objecting position when it is a white rascist bashing Hawaiians; which there is an awful lot of. It gets so hateful it sends chills up my spine.

Anonymous said...

be quiet nunya

nunya said...

Ah the truth hurts so bad doesnʻt it. Come out of your little anonymous wormhole.

Anonymous said...

no, but your posts are pretty painful

still, you are good for a laugh, of sorts...like that time you would only acknowledge saddam gassed kurds after my link to his al-jazeera bio

nunya said...

no, but your posts are pretty painful

like I said: the truth hurts. Donʻt let it ruin your day. lol

hwnwahine said...

hi Nunya......

thank you for the laffs/laughs!

"Ah the truth hurts so bad doesnʻt it. Come out of your little anonymous wormhole."

may i add "spineless slithering lip flapping worm in the wormhole"....

aloha.

p.s. as for blacks, am preparing the IOLANI - The Royal Hawk for this week with one of the articles regarding coconut- part black, white inside OBAMA:

SHOEMAKER POTATO STARVED DESCENDANT TO PRESIDENT:

OBAMA'S GENEALOGIES

With a name like "O'Bama," he must be Irish

read about all of them and more along with parts of this forum at www.theiolani.blogspot.com ;p

Anonymous said...

I guess I just find it odd to close posts dripping with racial hatred with "aloha." Unless you're trying to show that Hawaiians can be just as nasty and racist as anyone else. If that's your point, then "mission accomplished"!

hwnwahine said...

hi nunya etals.,

correction on the meaning of
coconut:

brown(not black) on the outside and white on the inside

although it may sound derogatory to some, it really has universal meanings

aboriginal Hawaiians just refer the term to hapa......and that is a Hawaiian word along with the a whole vocabulary belonging to our aboriginal Hawaiian people which does not include occupiers or the uninvited occupiers in Hawaii with piracy(ies), perpetuating frauds, etc. and claiming themselves to be our people, our government! lol.....oh, oh, by the way OBAMA is not a U.S. citizen because he was born in occupied, pirate occupied territory called the Hawaiian Kingdom/He Mokupuni Pae Aina o Hawaii/Kingdom of Hawaii/ Hawaiian Islands/Hawaiian archipelago.

Obama's true affiliation has actually been ignored and that means that the U.S. Constitution is or has been broken for a long time now......a bankrupt, brokeass nation made up of those whose beginnings are from the ruthless, scoundrels, scums with animosities towards people of color appear to continue a lawless basis for their 200+ year old nation built on theft, deceit, criminal malfeasance, and moving to occupy, exploit all ancient nations around the world in behalf of England and the bankers (CFR/Council on Foreign Relations - organizations set up to move towards creating the United Nations and One World Order/New World Order with intentions of continued PLUNDERING UPON INNOCENTS, assume assets, resources, lands of innocents, extermination campaign, killing off of "useless" or "needless eaters", etc.) and continue to be a present day slave driven country now headed by a person of color/ a coconut whose ancestors came from the Middle East? (so OBAMA moves to PLUNDER UPON INNOCENTS---his own people? that's truly evil, wicked.........chills up the spine...reminds me of the article/book that I did called "SHADOWS IN THE LIGHT" about the lynched blacks and how the whites attended church services before they lynched blacks in the U.S.....chills up the spine....

aloha.

nunya said...

"I guess I just find it odd to close posts dripping with racial hatred with "aloha." Unless you're trying to show that Hawaiians can be just as nasty and racist as anyone else."

Observation or calling it like it is: thatʻs not rascial hatred. And the "aloha" part...well letʻs just just allow the kanakas to use and interpret that word as it is ʻtheirʻ language. In fact, I doubt that you would be able to ever steal that too.

HWNWAHINE made some good points: the one I especially liked is the fact that America was founded by a bunch of rascists who still have that rascism in their blood, yet make overt efforts to sanitize it so that they are ʻpolitically correctʻ and lily white (lol no pun intended). By doing this they can fraudulently create the perception their opinions are unbiased and therefore valid.

Personally, I have been amazed at the consistent aloha demonstrated by the Hawaiian people in spite of it all.

So quit whining. Your rascism and hatred comes through on this page more than you are aware.

You are biased. Bent.

Anonymous said...

If you think calling someone a "penis nosed Jew" is "calling it like it is" then you have mental problems.

hwnwahine said...

are you waiting, longing for a comment from me....facts are facts...

Mission accomplished....end of story...your name needs to be changed from "anonymous" to "animosity".

thanks for encouraging the belly filled, tear making, wide mouth laughter that came with nunya's posts.

Kai originally sent me a message, and my curiosity yielding interesting responses......

Linda Lingles issues/comments are all over the world because it came from posts made months ago....so you're hearing the old stuff....


aloha, auf wiedersehen, sayonnara, ouvoir, goodbye.

hwnwahine/surfchic/surfkick/A.Gora

Anonymous said...

Right, nunya, the people objecting to racist (and that's how you spell the word) hate words are really the racists, while the scum calling racist names are showing aloha. What a twisted little piece of crap you are.

Anonymous said...

wow like nunya said, the truth hurts.
You donʻt have to get so vicious.
think u guys just looking for scapegoat to take out frustrations on.
wow get a life

Anonymous said...

The fundamental defect in the righteousness and validity of the Hawaiian Sovereignty cause is that it takes what is in fact a political issue and turns it into a racial one. Until that flaw is rectified, the cause is doomed to failure not only in achieving its goals but in being legitimate and credible.

Anonymous said...

...and i rest my case

4/07/2009 11:25 AM

nunya said...

"racist (and that's how you spell the word)"

Youʻre right. I misspelled racist. Thank you for pointing that out.

hwnwahine said...

info only.........
old post when obama ran for President:


From: hwnwahine 2:41 am
To: To All: Have A Safe 4th of July !



hi,

must admit i supported OBAMA until good ol Al Gore, Knights of Pythias head over the BoyScouts organization said that he would support OBAMA fully..........

so, the following is a message that brings out info that everyone needs to know... WHITE, BLACK, PEOPLE OF COLOR........

even though he may be confused, we still may have hope with him than the FULL WHITE Repub candidate..........


From: hwnwahine 2:23 am




hi,

what do you expect for a half white, half black schooled in a criminal based school in Hawaii with white teachings?

Obama went to school in Hawaii, briefly:

1852 - Hawaii passed the anti-slavery laws.

1865 - the U.S. passed anti-slavery laws almost word for word after Hawaii's laws.

1893 - Our neutral, friendly nation was criminally occupied, set up to be assumed by the U. S. six (6) days before dethroning the Queen.

1893 - January 15. Hawaii's Queen criminally dethroned by Americans/terrorists who were also under standing orders by Washington -----see The NEW YORK TIMES article in regards to Pearl Harbor, etc.

Hawaii's Queen was supported by 40,000 subjects, most being PEOPLE OF COLOR.

Criminal Americans/supporters numbered 3,000 - most were American Civil War generals, officers, missionaries/mercenaries, businessmen who were treasonous, terrorists.

1898 - Annexation claimed over Hawaii, legally it was not an annexation.

1898 - short time later - 30,000 SLAVES were documented in Hawaii - see The NEW YORK TIMES article about Slaves in Hawaii. Also, thousands of people of color in Hawaii were thrown on the leprosy colony called Kalaupapa, Molokai.

1900+ - women were recognized and allowed to vote.

1959 - Claims to Statehood of Hawaii made disregarding oppositions over time.

2008 - OBAMA a scholarly half white, half black male schooled in the BIGOT, CRIMINAL SCHOOLS PUT TOGETHER BY CRIMINAL DEVIANTS arises IGNORANT TO THE FACTS OF HAWAII'S TRUE HISTORY...........what do you expect.........I agree he is a hypocrite too.

the following is a bit of Hawaii's history that EVEN OBAMA DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT!

aloha.



The following is a Special U-Tube Documentary for everyone to see.....

video on YouTube!

Princess Poomaikelani
Presentation of Princess Virginia Kapooloku Poomaikelani ...the hidden Princess. Heir to The Hawaiian Kingdom.


or click on the following link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1tQmbiDino&feature=email

Ken Conklin said...

Kai said: "As for driving in the State, the judge is correct. Our point is he was not in the State of Hawaii. He was in the Kingdom! You know this absurdity does not come from us as we are portrayed. It comes from the US accepting and creating the "Republic" which all admit was a phony."

Kai, what everyone should know by now (even you) is that the Republic was recognized de jure as the rightful government of Hawaii -- the photographic evidence is available for everyone to see. Kings, Queens, Emperors, and Presidents of 20 nations on 4 continents, using 11 languages, personally signed letters of recognition of the Republic which were received between July 1894 and January 1895. The originals are in the state archives, and photos of them are at
http://tinyurl.com/4wtwdz
You can find a thorough analysis of the significance of those documents at
http://tinyurl.com/2pxqgz